The Post You’ve All Been Waiting For
…the post where I talk about what I don’t like about Winnipeg. Bet you thought this day would never come!
What’s been bugging me about Winnipeg lately is, well, downtown Winnipeg. Every weekday, I walk a couple blocks from my office to Portage & Donald to catch the bus home. Sometimes I have an appointment or something to do at lunch that keeps me downtown, so I’ve done a fair amount of jamming up and down Portage during the noon hour. Occasionally, I have met up with friends for after-work drinks at Tavern United or in the Exchange, but between that and my daytime adventures, that’s about the extent of my time spent downtown. And truth be told, that’s about enough for me.
So, what’s my beef with downtown?
This will seem like an exaggeration, but some days, it seems like the only people I see outside when I’m downtown are people smoking, people spitting, and people panhandling. In short, people who are not all that pleasant to be around. We all know that tons of people work downtown in jobs that require them to dress somewhat nicely and bathe regularly, so where are they? I figured it out not too long ago: they’re inside. If not in their offices, they’re in the walkway system staying warm, and well, avoiding the aforementioned people outside.
Can I blame them? No. When I have occasion to walk from my office to Portage and Main for lunch meetings, and I almost always walk inside. I should also disclose that I often head into CityPlace and then through the MTS Centre even when I’m just walking my regular route to the bus. This is partly because I think taking the walkway is fun – I thought the same of the Plus 15 system in Calgary and the massive, interconnected mall/office towers/transit station system where I worked in Vancouver. There’s something inherently neat about travelling a long distance without ever going outside (to an extent, anyway — think Waydowntown). But it’s also because even though walking through the MTS Centre takes longer than walking outside, some days, I just really don’t feel like sidestepping puddles of spit and listening to people yell at each other.
Winnipeg’s walkway system probably evolved more in response to our chilly winters than anything, but even when the weather is just right, people are still inside. Summer is a bit better: live music in the fresh air brings lots of people outside to eat lunch in the sunshine. But I wonder. Do we really need to hibernate for 8 or 9 months of the year? What else is going on here?
Despite efforts to spice up its image, downtown also just seems a bit sad. To me, the epitome of this is The Bay. Have you been to The Bay downtown? Structurally, it’s amazing. Stately pillars. Mile-high ceilings. Hardwood floors. The ladies’ bathroom is a snapshot in time: there are banks of little vanities where you can actually sit down on a chair, place your purse on the counter, and fix your hair or lipstick. It’s the sort of thing you’d expect to see in a film set, not in modern day. It’s wonderful. And yet, the store is run down. There seems to be no sense of pride in the gem we have on our hands. (And I was really surprised to see it made the Sun’s list of 100 reasons to love Winnipeg.) This Bay doesn’t seem to be given as much attention as the ones in the malls. That being said, my experiences with the Bay in most cities is not what it used to be.
We have such an iconic, historic building that houses an equally meaningful institution. Maybe I’m nostalgic for the good old days I was never a part of, but it seems like a tragedy to me not to restore it to its former self. But of course, it’s not just The Bay. There are dozens of gorgeous buildings in downtown Winnipeg, but so many of them have been left to age and decay. Downtown Winnipeg could have such a cosmopolitan feel to it.
But then, if no one shops downtown, why would anyone bother investing in restoring these old beauties or in opening new businesses in the area? I’m with Graham at Progressive Winnipeg when he wonders why “every major development that is announced here, isn’t downtown”. I mean, there’s only one MEC in the city, and people make the trip downtown to go there. I don’t pretend to know enough about urban planning to say that if you build it, they will come, but, well, I think if the destination store is attractive enough, they will come. This is probably completely unrealistic (because where, oh where on earth would everyone park?), but what if they’d decided to put Ikea downtown? Can you imagine the draw that would have been?
Why don’t people spend much time outside in downtown Winnipeg? My guesses are that they associate downtown with crime and with feeling unsafe, and that moreover, there’s not much to draw them there. Halfway through writing this, I came across this post from Slurpees & Murder, which takes a look at the MTS Centre and vicinity and asks “Would you put your team here?” The photos and commentary in the post are a grim but realistic illustration of downtown.
Now, this wouldn’t be a Winnipeg O’ My Heart post if I didn’t try to look on the positive side of all of this. To me, some progress is being made. The recent announcement about the Union Bank Tower being converted into the RRC culinary arts centre and student residences is wonderful news. More people will inevitably mean a bigger market for all sorts of business; starving as they may be, students always have money for coffee, clothing, and nightlife. And it’s nice to see some care being given to the Metropolitan Theatre – it will be interesting to see what the final product will be. Things are picking up in the Exchange; it seems new stores and restaurants are popping up down there all the time.
I haven’t lived in Winnipeg long enough to feel particularly qualified to comment on city politics or planning. All I know is what my experiences have been in other major cities, and what works for them. In Calgary, downtown’s Stephen Avenue is a bustling strip of bars and restaurants and adjacent shopping that is extremely active – even after work and on weekends. In Vancouver, Robson Street is much the same: truly convenient public transport and tons of nearby residences makes it easy to get to, and the variety of stores and restaurants make it a popular destination. Perhaps more importantly, pretty much all of downtown Vancouver feels safe. This is in large part, as former WoMH’er Laurel pointed out, because there are always people around. But I just don’t see how downtown, in its current state, can attract more people than it does now.
So I will watch with great interest at the developments occurring in Winnipeg’s downtown over the next few years. I will commit to exploring downtown a little more often, and to try to look bright side of things. It won’t be easy, though. I’m hard-pressed to think of anything I actually like about downtown (well, The Forks is pretty nice), but I’m open to suggestions. Anyone? Anyone?
I think of my parents, who lived and worked downtown. Their perception of Downtown was formed by the North of Portage that was in the 70′s The north side of Portage where the mall sits now was a crazy collection of all sorts of rundown pool halls, arcades,head shops, dirty movie theatres. etc. My mother who worked at Portage &Main would NEVER walk on that side of Portage. Portage Place was suppose to fix that.
I think things are changing for the better, there is way more stuff going on downtown, than say,in the 90′s. I think years from now we’ll look at the 80′s 90′s as the low points of the downtown, and where the change started to turn. It just can’t come fast enough!
I love downtown Winnipeg- but when I think of downtown, the part I focus on is the Exchange. I adore the little shops, the cafes, and the genuine street life that’s there as a result of having no underground or 2nd story walk ways.
My understanding of how downtown changed is that when portage and main were barricaded the whole thing kind of imploded. I wonder how true that is, but I do know from my city politics background that pulling people off the streets means that there are less eyes on the street, less citizens to have each other’s backs, and more chances for really bad things to happen. This applies equally to the lack of affordable, pedestrian scale housing in the downtown (ie- if you’re in trouble, can someone hear, open their apartment window and call the police?)
I work in the downtown, not in the Exchange area, but downtown proper, and I really agree with your characterization. I think there’s a whole generation of people who view the downtown as unsafe, violent & foreign and would prefer to stay away at all costs. More than anything that we can build down here, I think that there has to be a tipping point in that opinion. I would love to see more central events like the Santa Clause Parade where people from the suburbs head down here and get onto the streets so they can see that there’s a lot of amazing places here, and that it’s a safe place to be.
I live in the Exchange, so I am biased. I too love this part of downtown and it is pretty bustling during the week. On the weekends, before the bars get going, it can be empty. Over the six years I’ve lived here though, this is improving.
Downtown proper is coming along but too slowly. I don’t think the city is doing enough to offer incentives to set up businesses there. When there is an event at MTS Centre, there is a flicker of what could be. Lots of people around creating a vibrant buzz.
The safety issue is totally a matter of perception. I regularly walk through the downtown streets alone after dark and feel safe. I’ve never had a scary experience. Yes, I get asked for money occasionally. Sometimes I give, sometimes I don’t. I’ve never been treated aggressively. I’ve been asked for money in Toronto and Vancouver as well. City crime stats indicate that downtown and the Exchange District have significantly less crime than other areas of the city.
I, too, wish the Bay were in better condition. It really is an amazing building, and a staple destination for me as someone who works and lives near to Downtown. It would be wonderful if it were kept up to the same standard as department stores in the suburbs; I honestly don’t really know why it isn’t. I’m a frequent shopper at the basement grocery store, and while the clientele there isn’t particularly glamourous, it’s not like the “undesirables” are polluting the other floors, because those floors are usually deserted.
I love downtown as well but it has been very much a dog chasing it’s tail.
For many Winnipeggers they say they won’t go / shop / visit / get out of the skywalks etc. downtown until it’s improved, both physically and the types that hang out there. Yet, in order to retain and increase private investment downtown and to outnumber the types that they don’t like seeing hanging about there, people have to go / shop / visit / get out of the skywalks etc.
Unfortunately, it simply won’t happen that a perfect downtown will be built first. Often you have to support something you want and, in turn, that creates the change you want.
P.S. True about the Exchange.
That’s becoming the trendy, interesting downtown area. Often in cities the heart of the CBD is cold and empty after 5 pm. Toronto has great places downtown but they’re not at the base of the RBC tower. We have a huge downtown – The Forks, Exchange, Broadway, Central Park are all part of it, really. Maybe we focus too much on that 6 x 4 square blocks where the offices are.
A major catalyst is what is required. IKEA is one such catalyst for downtown. The Bay building can easily house it not to mention the hordes it will attract to it. Those hordes will easily drive away the “spitoon” gang and the Winnipeg of lore and yesteryear may yet reemerge.
Funny how outsiders have absolutely no fear of making such observations. The peg’s downtown can be easily fixed. It just needs an attitude adjustment.
Actually you should start a poll….Put everything aside and I mean everything, how many people would like to shop at an IKEA downtown vs. SuperMall Kenaston?
( has anyone even asked them or proposed a deal ? )
I am glad that you put your thoughts down as I wrote something similar on a forum that I particpate on, The Winnipeg Sandbox…..
http://kwdc.forumn.net/local-f4/an-afternoon-downtown-t3834.htm
The above link takes you to my little wake up call this past Saturday when the day was gorgeous but sad at the same time – sad because the notions of pride and civility seem to be disappearing from this city.
IKEA downtown? Does that mean IKEA , that is opening on Kenaston, closer to their market, is planning to open a 2nd store? What are people smoking these days. Has anyone asked them?
I totally agree with this post on all accounts.
People like me, have abandoned down town to the drunks and panhandlers. There is nothing to lure me in.
Maybe if the Apple store had opened in the exchange, I’d be excited about the down town.
What you fail to realize is that downtown used to be much worse. It is improving, but it’s taking a little longer than some people might like. Perhaps you could think of that before you jump to conclusions and pass judgement. If you don’t like Winnipeg then perhaps you should just go back to Vancouver. I’m so tired of outsiders criticizing Winnipeg, knocking it when they don’t know the whole story.
Rosen, so far there is no store opening on Kenaston. A city should have the ability to dictate what is needed and where it should go. It should also have the ability to walk away from proposals that don’t meet its goals. A massive mall on Kenaston does nothing for the core – transit – traffic -environmental issues – and a sense of well being.
The Pork plant your mayor pushed so hard for is a good example of what was not needed in the City and fortunately it never went ahead.
At some point the chicken/egg bs needs to stop. Compared to other City’s, the peg is tame. As Emma pointed out, other City’s made a decision and they reinvented themselves. It’s happened in numerous City’s across the country that think longterm.
Nothing like a little criticism to get everyone stirred up! Thanks for your insights, everyone. I am grateful to all those who have pointed out that downtown today is much better than it was 10 years ago. This is something I couldn’t have known as I’ve only been here a year and a bit; I’m glad to hear that things are improving, however slowly. The reality is, though, that this is what people experience when they move here from other cities, or visit here for business or pleasure. This is the impression that our city makes.
@Mr Christian — you make a really good point about the CBD and focusing too much on the relatively small area of downtown where the offices are. You’re absolutely right that in many cities these parts of downtown are ghost towns on evenings and weekends. I am glad to see so many people writing about the Exchange with such positivity.
@Mr. Nobody — I, for one, would much prefer to shop at an Ikea that was downtown, but that may be because it’s a much more convenient location for me. But I do think big stores like Ikea and, as commenter Travis suggests, Apple could be massive draws that people WOULD come come downtown for. When there’s no other choice, and it’s something people are desperate for, they’ll make the trip.
@Jason — I had to laugh at your comment. Have you read any other posts on this blog? This is the first with any true criticism, so I don’t think it’s fair to generalise and say that I’m jumping to conclusions and passing judgment. I may not be a true Winnipegger yet, but I think I’ve reflected more on what it’s like to live in this city than the average local has. It means I am examining the city, and rather than making blanket statements (“Winnipeg can do no wrong and it’s a perfect city!” OR “Winnipeg is hole; no wonder everyone hates it!”) I am merely wondering how others feel, and trying to get some discussion going. If that’s an offence worthy of banishment to Vancouver, then no wonder people think no one wants to move here.
Great post, Emma. Downtown Winnipeg does feel neglected and unloved, and it is a shame. I feel enthusiastic about its possibilities, though. Downtown can improve, if the right actions are taken.
Why should panhandling and public drunkenness be allowed? Adding a very visible police presence, in periodic sweeps, might create the kinds of streets that people feel safe walking on. It’s not just a matter of “clean up the streets!”, though. There is a significant poverty problem, obviously, and social supports are important. I am not sure what needs to be done in that regard, but I think it’s probably a combination of programs and attitudes. Everyone needs a chance to live with dignity, and it’s not doing anyone a favour to let them spend their days harassing people and asking for money.
All this said, though, I love downtown, for all its flaws. You can live there affordably without a car, it’s relatively safe, there are enough shopping options for most things, a good library and museum. It is the centre of our community, and I wish the whole community would embrace it and nurture it. We can’t let the dirty sidewalks get us down. Downtown is amazing, in its way. There are so many people with so many different lives, people from different backgrounds and with different manners. Most of them are actually good people, I would like to think — and they generally manage to get along. It’s odd; some days I walk around downtown with this sort of inner smile, and I just can’t help but think: This is my city, and these are my people.
It is hard to imagine how the Bay was allowed to get into its current state. Despite its forlornness, I am happy to have a full-scale department store downtown.
In recent weeks, I have been pleased to see a few signs that management is at least trying to maintain the store. They have done some painting here and there, replaced a section of carpet on third floor, done a bit of straightening up in the basement. Still a long ways to go, but lately you can almost see that someone cares. Bonnie Brooks, the Bay’s new CEO, is trying to restore some lustre to the chain, and I hope she succeeds. There’s something about shopping in a landmark building…big boxes can never compare.
Well, downtown Winnipeg is improving, but improving slowly. How slowly? It has been “improving slowly” since the year I began the job which I am now retired from.
There are many destination stores I would go to downtown, if it weren’t for the recent infestation of Yellow Jackets i.e. the new parking patrol, and the alteration of parking rates to probably triple their income, either through payments or fines.
Too, they effectively cut the amount of time the buyer gets for his quarter. It used to be if you bought an hour on the meter, either you or someone who pulled in when you pulled out, definitely GOT that hour. No more. When you leave, your remaining time vanishes — you can’t even use the reciept for time anywhere else, it’s tied to the one location.
The new parking regime keeps me out of the downtown, unless there’s no other choice. The spitting people are avoidable, the freelance taxation isn’t.
@Noni Mausa: You are incorrect about the new parking meters. With the new meters, you are purchasing time, instead of renting a physical space. If you still have time left on your receipt, and you need to park elsewhere, the time is still valid (see City of Winnipeg Parking Authority leaflet – http://theparkingstore.winnipeg.ca/theparkingstore/pdfs/SpotlightOnParking_16.pdf). **Bonus little known fact: ANYONE can park in a loading zone, as long as it is for no more than 30 minutes.
Also, @Noni Mausa, regarding the speed of growth: Slow growth can be an asset… in our case, it has prevented us from razing some of the most beautiful buildings in our city in the name of “progress” and “development”. Instead, it has forced us to find to ways to retrofit and renovate, all the while keeping intact most of the history and charm!
Also, although the growth in the downtown core may seem to have been excruciatingly slow in the past (you don’t mention when you started at that job, the tone of your writing would imply 47 years), I would argue that the last 5 years (at LEAST) have seen a drastic acceleration of that pace. Mountain Equipment Co-op, MTS Centre, Red River College’s Princess Campus, U of W’s McFeetor’s Hall, Waterfront Drive condo projects, the list goes on… Most recently, RRC’s retrofitting of the Union Bank Tower will bring 100 new people (students) to LIVE DOWNTOWN! And if I look back to what I was doing during my college years (eating, drinking and going out — usually all once… er, I mean, whenever my studies permitted it, that is), these are exactly the people that will support the types of businesses we are so desperate to have downtown. Bottom line, we are at the beginning of a tipping point, and the next 5 to 10 years will see a radically different downtown Winnipeg emerge, one we can all be proud of.
Yay Winnipeg, and double-yay Downtown Winnipeg (in 5ish years)!
Just one little correction. You say, “…regarding the speed of growth: Slow growth can be an asset… ”
I absolutely agree. I like the fact that Winnipeg has grown very slowly.
But “growth” doesn’t equate with “improvement.” As you note, lots of growth is anti-improvement. And improvement doesn’t mean ripping down the town’s beautiful buildings. Witness the new RRC campus, a real delight.
BTW, THANK YOU for the tip on parking. I will use both hints happily.
Noni
Very interesting post and I agree completely.
“people smoking, people spitting, and people panhandling”
Indeed. I have noticed this as well. I have also noticed the rude mothers pushing strollers while smoking and talking on their cellphone. This group seems to think the world revolves around them. Their SUV strollers take up half the sidewalk and then they demand to board a bus and consume 5 seats and force several people to stand. What happened to SMALL strollers and to bus drivers enforcing the “fold your stroller” rule?
Another point about these strollers is they will not move over. Last week I was walking along the right side of the sidewalk (does no one do this anymore?) and a stroller and companion were walking abreast (most people in this city who travel in pairs or groups insist on forcing everyone else off the sidewalk) and I could see they were not going to move over (they had 3 feet between them and the street) so I simply stopped dead in my tracks. And, they crashed right into me but I didn’t budge. I was up against the building. I will not disappear into thin air just so an SUV stroller can take up the whole sidewalk.
But anyway, I’m off topic. Back to the original points above, I’ve managed to find some routes which help me avoid most of the problems mentioned. Portage Place is a real social cause for sure. Strollers and bums, basically. City Place? Better crowd but very annoying music in the food court. I would go there for lunch more often if not for the annoying music they pipe in. And no, I do not loiter and drink coffee all day. I need 15 minutes tops to eat, and then I’m gone. Their music drives me away!
I and many other of these working professionals mentioned above don’t come downtown because we want to. We come down here because our employers locate their offices here and force us to be here. So when the clock strikes 5, we’re outta here, away from the spitting, bums, SUV strollers and panhandlers.
This has nothing to do with retail establishments and everything to do with the bums and undesirables and rude people that seem to congregate downtown. Get rid of them and the criminals and you’ll find that decent people with proper manners will start to want to come here.
I just visited Chicago and I loved it! The reason: it was very Winnipeg-like (or maybe Winnipeg is very Chicago-like?) and was an inspiration for what downtown Winnipeg could become. We’re not that far off – all we need are city planners and a mayor with some vision. Things are slowly changing and all change takes time, but I don’t think things are too far gone…yet. Perhaps electing a new mayor will be the catalyst we need! *cough* 2010 municipal election *cough*
Just this weekend I was downtown on Saturday morning. Walking along Broadway towards Main, I was struck by how much I loved the architecture and feeling of the street. I noticed low-rise apartment buildings that have people living right in the middle of this area. Probably the unusual November weather also had a reason for my observations.
Several years ago I worked downtown in the evening, catching the bus at Vaughn and Graham at 11:00 p.m. I never felt unsafe or afraid. Sure there were panhandlers, but it was also well lit and there were always a couple of other people around. I’m not afraid for my kids to take transit downtown, although I do encourage them to travel with others.
I hope Michel is right, and the next 5ish years bring even more change!
IHEART: A new mayor is going to stop people from smoking, spitting and panhandling?
C’mon.
Amen, amen, amen. The problem with downtown isn’t a lack of tax incentives to open up business or the red tape at city hall etc. It’s that those who are in and around Portage Ave during and after office hours are truly horrible to be around. I don’t consider myself to be much into corporal punishment, but I think the spitters should get a caning Singapore style. It’s absolutely disgusting, and an embarrassment for me when I’m with friends from out of town. Never mind the urinating in the middle of the day…
Well done.
Nice post and interesting discussion that follows.
Downtown – its importance, its condition, its future, the relative degree of success that efforts to vitalize it have (or haven’t) been having – is something the City has been hearing alot about through SpeakUpWinnipeg. The Call to Action (halfway report/check-in with the community on the project of creating a new long-term plan) includes actions relating to downtown – http://www.speakupwinnipeg.com/home/call_to_action/.
One of the proposed actions is pursuing the development of downtown as an entertainment hub, another relates to hosting more downtown festivals. What do you think? The right direction?
I can’t believe how late I am to this party…! Emma, I feel like you wrote this post just for the sake of my crass provocations.
Very interesting, though. The idea of an entire downtown jam-packed with spitting hobos is an extremely foreign idea to me, although during my visits to Calgary I’ve noticed a similar kind of effect while staying at hotels downtown. It’s prevalent in parts of downtown Vancouver as well.
In fact, this has been the case all the major Canadian cities I’ve ever been with the exception of Toronto and Montreal.
Having just moved back to Winnipeg from Montreal..I must say Downtown Winnipeg is scary, dirty and not a place I enjoy being.. Ok the Forks and the exchange are unique.
But whats with all the garbage. After living in several larger Canadian and American cities, we all need to do a better job in Winnipeg of cleaning up! We are know for our huge harts and Charity drives. We should invest in Winnipeg and get a plan of action together for making downtown safe, clean and more business like or trendy!
Here’s to cleaning up the Peg!